Recent auction result of 3K mile '90

[RNE]

Mike,

I have been aggressive, politely so, for a reason - Sandy does NOT own the last car, there is no agreeing to disagree here, unless we all want to agree to our own definitions.
I have long felt Sandy pushes his off as the last car to somehow add prestige or value to his car, even though it is not necessary. His collection is unquestionably pristine, and somewhat unique, but calling the individual who owns the Leake auction car a LIAR in a public forum with nothing more than his speculative remarks, and the actual statement that his last car is really #53 is more than agressive, it is purely unfounded and uncalled for.
That car has a better chance of being the last car than either of Sandy's. Mr. Block clearly indicates both of his 1990 vehicles were completed prior to at least 10 others. Read Sandy's post, go back years, it's all there. I still remember "Carson Concepts". I guess you had to be there.

Most of you probably aren't old enough or were not into these cars or any others at the time, so believe what you like. Made up history. It's not likely most of these cars will ever be worth much as collectors anyway.
Just follow logic when reading Sandy's gospel of the anniversary cars - it can't be both ways.

My productive intent was to clear the air on the LAST CAR bs and maybe get Sandy to concede the Leake car owner is perhaps no more a LIAR than himself. Calling someone a LIAR just isn't very nice, is it?
Sorry about the facts, but it is what it is.

Regards,
RNE

[svo413]

I visit this site to gain knowledge on these cars. Mike and Sandy have devoted so much time and effort to this site and the previous site. I don't pretend to be an expert on these cars and I rely on this site for that type of info when needed. I find it pretty ballsey for someone with only 8 posts to come in and put others down as being incorrect. That would get them banned on some other sites. It not clear to me if RNE even owns one of these cars. While this is a public forum, it is still basically a private club which requires acceptance to join.

While Sandy has nothing to gain from his claim, we all know what marketing talk can do for a car that is up for sale. I say let the owner of the auctioned car come here and speak for himself, just as Sandy is doing for his situation. Who knows, maybe we will end up with 2 experts.

[Sandy]

I have almost always said that my car (Azura Blue) was (and still is) the last regular car (ascMcLaren) made. I have tried to keep the 12 25th Silver Anniversary Editions seperate, simply because ONLY 2 were made in the paint color chosen by ascMcLaren.

The 2 cars that were brought in and made in color were so done to bring back employees and because it seemed evident that the roofs were awaiting shipment. Then the "news" that the company in Germany had not made even one of them, yet and that compounded with the FoMoCo attorney's letter - killed the car. THE cars are, yes, out there, and as i said, they are all white, or red or black. HERE THEY ARE:--

VIN . Dash Plaque >> How it was eventually made:--
132854 > > 1906 > > White, Scarlet Int. Blk Top
132855 > > 1908 > > White, Scarlet Int. Claret~Wine Top
132856 > > 1907 > > Silver, Scarlet Int. Claret~Wine Top
132859 > > 1900 > > Red, Scarlet Int. Black Top
132862 > > 1909 > > White, Scarlet Int. White Top
132863 > > 1902 > > White, Scarlet Int. White Top
132864 > > 1910 > > Black, Scarlet Int. Black Top
132865 > > 1903 > > White Scarlet Int. Claret~Wine Top
132866 > > 1911 > > Black, Scarlet Int. Black Top
132868 > > 1904 > > Silver, Scarlet Int. Black Top*
132870 > > 1901 > > Black, Scarlet Int. Black Top
132910 > > 1905 > > White, Crystal & Dk. Regatta Blue Int. Atlantic Blue Top
* = Sandy's Car, 1 of 2 left "Sterling Silver Metallic"

As you can see, NONE had GRAY interior, as I assume YOURS does, so it's NOT a 25th Silver Anniversary Edition.

Since my Azura Blue is the last "Regular 1990 ascMcLaren Made, your red car is not the last regular edition made, either, as stated in the e-bay advertisment!!

[shelbyscarab]

Wow, I don't know how I missed this explosive thread....... not paying close enough attention I guess.

anyway, I'm trying to get an idea of intelligence now.... RNE, I'm not sure if you are the owner, or a friend of the owner, but you sure have alot of passion about this red '90. (considering your posts I'm inclined to think you are the owner). But back to my intelligence question. I've read thru all of the postings about this auction for this red ASC (nice car by the way) Is it true that the car was bid up to $19,500 and you or the owner did not take it? Did the bidding start at 19,500 and had no bidders or did it actually bid up to 19,500 and it was not accepted? Seriously.

[Sandy]

I THOUGHT THAT I HAD MADE (OVER THE PAST MANY YEARS) THE FACT CLEAR THAT MY AZURA BLUE CAR WAS THE LAST OF THE REGULAR ASC/McLARENS. NOT THAT IT MATTERS, THIS WE KNOW, BUT BESIDES BEING #53 MADE - THE END OF THE INTENDED REGULAR PRODUCTION, IT ALSO HAS THE HIGHEST VIN OF THE 65 UNITS, BECAUSE THE PERSON WHO WANTED IT, PULLED OUT THE CAR WITH THE HIGHEST VIN, AND SET IT ASIDE. THEN, HE COULD NOT OBTAIN THE NEEDED FUNDS AND OR CREDIT TO ACTUALLY BUY IT.

THEN THERE WAS A 2 WEEK (POSSIBLY 3 WEEK((?)) TIME PERIOD WHEN NOTHING HAPPENED AS THEY AWAITED THE ALREADY LATE ARESMA SILVER COLORED TOPS. AFTER SUMMER VACATION, THE EMPLOYEES RETURNED AND BUILT THE ONLY TWO SILVER ANNIVERSARY CARS, THAT WERE MADE SILVER. THEY WERE TOPLESS.....AWAITING THEIR ARESMA SILVER TOPS, AND WERE KEPT INDOORS. WHEN THE LAWYER LETTER CAME AND A CALL TO GERMANY FOUND THAT THE TOPS WERE NOT YET MADE, THEY WERE (THE TOPS) CANCELLED.
THEY THEN BUILT THE REMAINING 10 UNITS IN WHITE, BLACK OR RED,
AND PUT WHITE, BLACK OR CLARET-WINE TOPS ON THEM.

MY BLUE CAR IS THE LAST REGULAR NON SILVER ANNIVERSARY CAR MADE, THE SILVER ANNIVERSARY CARS THAT WERE PAINTED IN RED, BLACK OR WHITE STILL HAVE ON THEIR DASH PLAQUES OF 1900 TO 1911 AND CAN BE SO TOLD, BY THOSE PLAQUES. MINE IS 1 OF TWO MADE IN THE PROPOSED PAINT COLOR.

THE NICE RED EXAMPLE THAT I CAN ONLY ASSUME RNE HAS AN INTEREST IN IS NOT THE LAST REGULAR UNIT, NOT IS IT THE LAST SILVER ANNIVERSARY INTENDED UNIT, OR ANY SILVER ANNIVERSARY UNIT! (AND HE IS CALLING ME A LIAR? REFER TO THE CAR'S ADVERTISMENT, FOR THE LIE).

MY CAR'S VIN ENDS IN 132918. THERE IS NO HIGHER VIN FOR A 1990 THAN THAT. IT WAS #53 OF 65 BUILT.

NOW....
I WILL TELL YOU OF RNEs CAR. I THINK IT'S A 5 SPEED. YES OR NO ?
I THINK SO. IF I AM CORRECT. IT'S VIN IS # 132898. IT'S ASC/MCLAREN RED WITH OPAL GRAY LEARTHER INTERIOR AND A BLACK TOP. IT'S A 5 SPEED MANUAL
WE DO KNOW THAT SOMETIMES THE DASH PLAQUES ARE OFF A FEW NUMBERS, BUT I SHOW THE NUMBER OF 289 FOR THAT CAR. IT HAS THE RADER & ILLUMINATED KEYLESS ENTRY AND THE SILVER WHEELS.
IT WAS THE 42ND 1990 MADE, OF THE 53 REGULARS, FOLLOWED BY THE 12 SET-ASIDE WAITING TO BE MADE 25TH SILVER ANNIVERSARY EDITIONS.
I HAVE A LITTLE BLACK CHECK MARK NEXT TO IT ON THE ASC LISTING, INDICATING THAT AT SOMETIME THE OWNER & I SPOKE ON THE PHONE.

REGARDING THIS TOPIC. I AM FINISHED.

[negusm]

I have been aggressive, politely so, for a reason

Is calling people to "man up" and "when you get the balls", polite? No, it is not.

My productive intent

Laughable. You posted to throw stones and start a fight not be productive.

Most people here have dabbled in cars and the Mustang market for years. Probably far more than yourself. We all know misinformation is out there and its not perfect. Not everything is cut and dry. Your interpretation of "the facts" is not the only interpretation. A car scheduled to be the last one built but finished before another car because of an assembly line hold up could conceivably be still considered "the last car".

The funniest thing about your defense is that you take exception to someone being called a liar when you do the very same thing:

I am also aware of some things you [Sandy] just are flat wrong about"

Clean up your act please.

-Mike

[Sandy]

I traced this car. It's original owner was Ken Wells, with a VIN of 132898

OR

Roger Grey with a VIN of 132876, which is interesting, for if it is Mr. Grey's car, it has been retrofitted with a 5-Speed, as it was originally an automatic trans. car.

Of course, it coulda had many owners all the way. If it was Mr. Grey's car, then it's VIN would indicate the fact that it was originally a n automatic and is now being represented as a STICK. Smells like a lie.

[noascyet]

RNE,

What do you care if someone says they have the last car or not... Sounds like you have something to gain/prove by discrediting Sandy.

[RNE]

Mike;

I was originally replying to Sandy's post as polite as possible at the time, as he had already called out another - in very bold print - a LIAR, simply regarding the 'last' car. I think at this point anyone reading this will understand he does not, and never has, owned the 'last' ASC converted Mustang. He has #53 and something else other than #65. Enough said.

The productive intent - I am very much in the collector automobile business. A demonstrable claim of the 'LAST' car usually means more value - and from 30 plus years of experiance at auctions, as expert witness, and valuing collections, the last off the line is the last. In our case, it has nothing to do with VIN. It is whatever car #65 is.

I don't dabble in cars.
There may be someone here with more experiance than myself, I have no way to know. I currently own 31 cars of which 6 are Mustangs, the least valuable is probably my 1990 ASC conversion, VIN 132862, D/P #255, not 1909 per Sandy's list. It has a build date (ASC Conversion) of 6/90. Except for the interior, it looks like #256.
I don't claim it to be the last one built, but from Sandy's own statistics it's closer than either one of his.

CarFax once had the mileage as 18K. I had reported it as 1800. Doesn't mean anything to me, it's not for sale.

I did not post to throw stones but to settle some facts I have known for many years and wanted to get it in the open Sandy has cars #53 and something else OTHER than #65. Again, my point to the entire ASC collector family is the last car is out there, not in Sandy's garage. Issues such as this have ended up in court over less when sales are made based on these type statements.

I only take exception to someone called a liar before the facts are known, as I have known for years Sandy DOES NOT own the last car of this lineage. I don't mean to invade a 'private club' , but if the club members aren't into serious discourse as to facts it's your loss. Your credibility isn't worth squat if members are unwilling to look at things from other than one aspect.

SVO413;
I have 8 post because usually not much to say here. I've been in this game a long time though.

shelbyscarab;

I was at the auction.
The bidding went to 19.5K, as best I can tell it did not meet reserve. It was probably a shill bidder who stopped short of the reserve to avoid seller's premiums.
BJ is all no reserve --if you don't like the price, you have to buy it back from yourself and pay Craig his points. This car should have sold. It is not mine nor do I know the owner, but it appears very clean.

noascyet;

Nice edit on your post, but F/U anyway.

Best Regards,
RNE

[tfs2121]

wow... just wow... i hope you guys banned this shmuck already. face the facts dude. your car is not a silver anniversary edition. nor is it the last non silver anniversary built. end of story

stop fcuking with sandy and go away!

[RNE]

tfs2121;

Read. I never wrote either, although my car does fall into the S/N range of the last 10 'anniversary' cars. You don't want to learn, just babble.

[tfs2121]

here is a link to RNEs first post
http://www.ascmclaren.org/phpBB/viewtop ... 00&start=0


RNE i see that... your car is NOT the one that was up for auction. your car is 132862 #1909. you told us your dash does not have #1909. but you never responded with what # it has on it.

im sure your car could maybe be the last built of the 10 cars after sandys. but we will never know. unless you have spoken to Howard and he told you yours was the last built.

you sure did bust out and take aim at sandy. you just dont come out and diss him the way you did. he has worked so so so hard for many years to get us the info we have. with out him we would have hardly any info at all. even through the hundreds of hours of chemo sandy still does everything in his power to provide information to our group. he should be shown some respect for his hard work.

still waiting on the pics of your car RNE...

[plumkrazy]

I have learned a thing or too.

Cool I have the LAST 1985 CAPRI LOL, in silver and a GP

[negusm]

Nice edit on your post, but F/U anyway.

Best Regards,
RNE

That's enough.

I gave you two strikes. That is the third. Go to the Corral or someplace else to play.

FYI, *I* edited noasc's post and sent him a warning.

-Mike

[negusm]

I am locking this thread now.