Can you believe the nerve of this?

[Sandy]

I do agree that in the 70s & 80s, many - very many - of the domestics were sub-par to some of the competition, especially in the ever popular lower priced cars. BUT, it's 20 years later, now. The public can dig up the past, and use that as an excuse not to buy a GM, Chrysler or Ford product from now until 2020. The big-3 are not that stupid. They figured out several years ago that quality & value are paramont to their futures.
But....... if Americans are just going to constantly dig up horror stories of a 1980 Pontiac Phoenix - then nothing is going to change.

The combined mileage of my daily driver & my wife's daily driver is 68,000 miles. My car has never had a single problem.
It's a Lincoln Town Car - 2003
Wife's is a Jeep Cherokee Limited 4X4 - 2001.
It had 1 problem, that cost $1,300 to fix. The Air Conditioner's Evaperator went south. It was 7 years old at that time. We paid.
Therefore... How could I state that Domestic cars are crap, today?
But.... I know of others who have had as little trouble as we have had, over an 8 or 9 year period, and even though they have had no or next to no trouble, they will pick up the ball and bad mouth all domestics ! ?
A fad? I dunno

EDIT - Case in point....A neighbor bought new a 1990 Pontiac, I think a Bonneville 4-Dr. He drove it cross country 5 times!
He had to do a new steering something or other and the A/C broke. he fixed it. The car was at 102,000 miles ! All else was original!!!
He junked it and bought a new Toyota Avalon (2003) . I asked him how come he didn't buy another Pontiac. He actually said to me, "I think Japanese cars are better!"
I wanna live to see 102,000 miles in 2015 !! and if the Avalon can best the Bonne!

[shelbyscarab]

It won't matter much longer. Kia/Hyundai has already started building the coffin and the Chinese cars will put the last nail in.

Our government has no interest in leveling the playing field.

-Mike

Well, if and when that happens, I'll be driving European cars.......

[shelbyscarab]

What's more important: jobs or the potential of dividends ?

I would say Jobs.

What's more important, A sound and strong Japanese Automobile industry or a sound & strong American Automobile industry ?

Clearly, the Big Three have decided it's either or, never both. Bad management killed Detroit.

We can build their cars or buy Big Three cars built in wage-advantaged countries.

Its not all managements fault......

[shelbyscarab]

Sandy,

If I call someone over for an estimate on a repair or an upgrade on something at my home, and he/she drives up in a foreign badged vehicle, they have ZERO chance of getting my business.

So, you'd rather he drive a Mexican-built Ford Fusion than a Kentucky-built Toyota Camry?? I avoid buying anything built in a slave-wage country simply to make Wall Street happy--or pay huge legacy costs.

The biggest importer of cars is the Big Three. Why do you think they always fight against import restrictions, limiting "Cash for Clunkers", etc.??

So, what are "slave wages"? I know, anything less than what is made in Detroit. Newsflash - thats unsustainable......especially when it just gets higher and higher after every "contract negotiation" (if some really want to call it "negotiations") and then on top of that, how about retiring at 50 with those cadillac pensions..... nice. and then some work under the table for another 10-15 years. Imagine what the price of that GM, Ford, or Dodge would be if........

[Kentennis]

You have a misconception about the Big 3 pensions. Yes they can retire after 30 years of laboring in an atmosphere of smoke, heat, cold and whatever comes their way. BUT when they retire, that's it FOR LIFE! When they start drawing Social Security the pension goes down by that amount. And every increase in the SS COLA reduces that pension by the same amount.

Sounded good in 1966 when you could retire on $900.00 a month. But by now all those people have is SS. No pension.

And on 1-1-2010 the salaried employees from GM lost their health care. All of it. Those aren't relaly 'Cadillac Pensions', in my opinion. Mine is much better. And I retired in my 50's. I'll be 72 in April.

2 friends of ours retired years ago from GM. Both salaried. They are now both working again, in their 70's to pay for their health care and a small mortgage. So much for the Cadillac Pension!!

[negusm]

Pension? What's that?

Most of us will never experience such a thing. I would count yourself very lucky to have even the smallest of one and to be able to retire 10 years early. I am looking at working until I drop dead. There will be no SS or pension for me.

-Mike

[1985 Motorsport Capri]

Pension? What's that?

Most of us will never experience such a thing. I would count yourself very lucky to have even the smallest of one and to be able to retire 10 years early. I am looking at working until I drop dead. There will be no SS or pension for me.

-Mike

Amen Brother!

[ChuckG]

Sandy,

So, what are "slave wages"? I know, anything less than what is made in Detroit. Newsflash - thats unsustainable......especially when it just gets higher and higher after every "contract negotiation" (if some really want to call it "negotiations") and then on top of that, how about retiring at 50 with those cadillac pensions..... nice. and then some work under the table for another 10-15 years. Imagine what the price of that GM, Ford, or Dodge would be if........

Not at all, but I'd gather even Adam Smith would find paying folks in Mexico $7 a DAY is less desirable and ethical than paying American's $8-15 an hour. Then there's the safety and environmental cost savings of ignoring either Mexico offers.

Why must all the legacy costs be borne on the backs of the Third World?

Yes, the UAW contributed mightily to this, but British, Japanese, Canadian, Italian, German, and French auto workers make a living wage and I don't feel dirty when I consider their products like I do Mexican or Korean cars.

[ChuckG]

Pension? What's that?

Most of us will never experience such a thing. I would count yourself very lucky to have even the smallest of one and to be able to retire 10 years early. I am looking at working until I drop dead. There will be no SS or pension for me.

-Mike

Amen Brother!

And that's why God invented 401ks and IRAs. I knew VERY early in my working life that counting on any company not to screw me out of a pension was a fantasy.

Denny McLaine anyone???

[Sandy]

That's what my Father said........50 years ago !
Cash, he said.....never goes outta style.

[Kentennis]

ChuckG

You quoted the wrong person. It wasn't I that wrote the quote.

KT

[1985 Motorsport Capri]

And that's why God invented 401ks and IRAs. I knew VERY early in my working life that counting on any company not to screw me out of a pension was a fantasy.

Denny McLaine anyone???

its only a matter of time before uncle sam starts taxing 401k's &
most company's dont even contribute to 401k's anymore.

[shelbyscarab]

And that's why God invented 401ks and IRAs. I knew VERY early in my working life that counting on any company not to screw me out of a pension was a fantasy.

Denny McLaine anyone???

its only a matter of time before uncle sam starts taxing 401k's &
most company's dont even contribute to 401k's anymore.

Thats why its soo important to get the RIGHT people in office! We are getting much closer to a breaking point!!!

[ChuckG]

ChuckG

You quoted the wrong person. It wasn't I that wrote the quote.

KT

Sorry. Peculiarities of the quoting system.

[ChuckG]

its only a matter of time before uncle sam starts taxing 401k's &
most company's dont even contribute to 401k's anymore.

And why I converted to Roth IRAs soon as a could.

401ks ARE taxed, but only on disbursement when you're likely in a lower tax bracket.

The hot ticket has always been invest in real estate, mortgage to high heaven right before you sell and claim a loss, but growth there is years away.