Just stopped in to say Hello.

[svt1996cobra]

Pete,

Here is a article that may interest you:

http://tms.ecol.net/newcars/ss111998.htm

David

[negusm]

I think the "control" aspect in snow he is referring to is at speed. At speed, the physics do indeed take over and it doesn't really matter which tranny you have. However, From a standstill in snow, mud or other muck, give me a manual tranny any day of the week. Of course add traction control to the mix and it may get rid of any advantage the manual tranny might have. Also, I doubt he has tried to "rock" a car out of mud with an automatic. It can't be done....or at least I can't do it.

-Mike

[PetesPonies]

well thanks for the link to the article. To justify it..it does seem to be an article that isn't weighted with many facts and is insurance based?? Just meaning it may be a little light hearted...not written by a hard core guy if you know what I mean.
As far a GM autos..there is no justification as to why an auto would be faster, except human error/abilities. Now some of these new 5 speed automatics may be closer, but you still loose power running through it. That may have lessened, but it will never disappear. But more specific to out discussion, we are talking about a 3 speed auto with an overdrive. Show me a car that is faster with an automatic that has a 4 or 5 speed manual verses a 3 speed with OD auto. I'll gladly read the article.

[ASCMCLRN]

well thanks for the link to the article. To justify it..it does seem to be an article that isn't weighted with many facts and is insurance based?? Just meaning it may be a little light hearted...not written by a hard core guy if you know what I mean.
As far a GM autos..there is no justification as to why an auto would be faster, except human error/abilities. Now some of these new 5 speed automatics may be closer, but you still loose power running through it. That may have lessened, but it will never disappear. But more specific to out discussion, we are talking about a 3 speed auto with an overdrive. Show me a car that is faster with an automatic that has a 4 or 5 speed manual verses a 3 speed with OD auto. I'll gladly read the article.

Hi Pete, By no means am I looking for an argument please understand. Sometimes its hard to convey what you mean in words and I dont want you to think that because I disagree that is the case. I can tell you straight out a Vette with an automatic vs a 4+3 manual, the automatic wins all the time. As far as the rating on HP in a Mustang it was only a 5hp difference from a stick to automatic. I have to admit I am a bit lazy at the moment and just resighting what I remember from memory versus doing some additional research to illustrate what I forgot in the past. If I get some time later I will certainly go back and address this issue. Thanks.

Nick

[svt1996cobra]

Pete,

You are correct in your statements about the power loss of the automatic transmission, as well as gear ratio advantage a manual box has over a automatic, but to say in so may words, a automatic is not a performance car is a stretch.

For bracket racing I will choose an automatic, over a stick any day of the week. First off, the automatic is consistent, second,an automatic is easier on the drive line of the car, which relates to less time in the garage fixing broken parts.

For a daily driver, I am with you, a stick is the way to go, for all the reason's you have listed.

I see it as a resaon to own more than one car!

David

[negusm]

It's like anything. Which one is "best" depends on the application, manufacurer and the technology employed.

-Mike

[Kyle]

Also, I doubt he has tried to "rock" a car out of mud with an automatic. It can't be done....or at least I can't do it.

-Mike

I've done it, 3 times, my old capri, my dads explorer and my moms 93 lx vert, I actually think its eaiser to "rock" a car out of the mud with an auto.

I think, for the average racer, the auto is a better tranny, don't have to worry about shifting at the right time. That new DSG tranny that Audi(?) makes is pretty nice, 2 input shafts, 2 output shafts, 2 clutches, shifts faster then most manuals, and I believe it works like an auto. I think there is a time and a place for both.

[PetesPonies]

well Nick...you aren't upsetting me...this is how I like it )

As far as our discussion..in order to keep my thoughts accurate, we can't be influenced by someone's ability or lack of ability to shift gears. I'm talking automobile potential. And it doesn't matter how much is lost through the auto trans, but if some is lost..so is lost performance. That is all I am saying. But this all started because I , personally I guess, hate to see performance cars offered with automatics :O) I understand there are reasons why someone might want or need an automatic. It all depends on the usage of the car I guess. I have lots of them; cars. I'm not trying to do dual duty, so my cars are for specific reasons. I'm sure that relates to why I see it the way I do )

[Kyle]

I agree with you about the sports car/manual debate, I don't even like the new paddle shifters that are coming out, a manual should have a clutch pedal. However, many of these sports cars need to have an auto just to stay around, not many people would by a mustang, or corvette even, if it only came it manual. I used to think the mustang should only have a v8 in it, but without the V/I6 that they have always had, they would have died a long time ago, so to say a car isn't a sports car if it comes in auto isn't entirely fair.

The worst power loss I've seen in an auto vs manual car is the mazda RX-8, I think its almost 30hp, if memory serves. Barring driver error, I'd bet on a stick most days.