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Good points. I've never understood why and what the thinking was after we bombed Japan back into the stone age, why the hell did we rebuild the country for them?!!?!?!?!?!? YOu walk away and don't look back.darkhorse40 wrote:We can thank the US goverrnment for sending a guy named W. Charles Demming to Japan after WWII and teaching them all about how to make improvements to manufacturing processes.
They basically taught them how to make stuff better, and then said, hey, now we'll buy your **** to help you rebuild, even though you wanted to take us over.
If they couldn't do it by force, they'll do it with money. The same money that we hand to them every time one of us rolls out of the showroom with one of their pieces of **** that gets recalled for safety and has parts that cost twice as much as they should. I admit I like thier motorcycles, but I would never purchase one new, as that would benefit them directly. (Hope that doesn't make me look two faced.)
I like to rant about the Japanese companies just like Sandy and the German car makers...I hear ya Sandy.
Sandy, its the urban areas. You really can see a huge difference being in the larger cities vs. the rural areas. Its night and day obvious. kias, hyundais, toys, hondaz, nissans........... are thick in the cities.Sandy wrote:Women are the worst offenders! Here in Jersey, at least 75% (if not more!) buy NEW foreign cars. They begin with ToyoPET, or honDUH, or So-sue-key or Key-ya. Later on they move on up to OW-Dee or Miserable Bends or Bowel Movement Working (BMW for short.)
SOoooo, what has this lust for sending American dollars over seas brouight about? HUGE loss of Jobs, comes first.
Assembly Lines closed.
You guys now realize after seeing this, what 90% of the "Car-Dum public
has still failed to realize (and they don't really care) !
"Regarding Japan, they will not allow American corporations (GM, Chrysler, Ford) to purchase land in Japan and build a manufacturing network over there - as "we" allowe them to do here. Is THAT the Japanese way of "fair trade?" - This is something I have a major problem with and it does irritate the hell out of me. THis fact should be broadcast on every major drive by media network and newspaper. Talk about gall. and yet our leaders let this go. As far as I'm concerned, if Ford-GM-Chrysler can't freely sell cars over there, then all sales of their brands should stop now.Sandy wrote:Okay, first off. ANY Japanese car/truck built in America by a Japanese Corporation causes themoney to leave the USA., Americans DO work on the assembly lines and yes it gives them the jobs, BUT that is like cutting your nose off to get back at your face!
IF they were not building the Japanese cars, and if more Americans bought American product, then, most probably those same workers would be building American-Branded cars/trucks.
Next:
Why is it NOT okay to use "Japs" for Japanese ~ yet okay to use "Jews"
for Jewish ? As you did, above??!!
Regarding Japan, they will not allow American corporations (GM, Chrysler, Ford) to purchase land in Japan and build a manufacturing network over there - as "we" allowe them to do here. Is THAT the Japanese way of "fair trade?
I understand where you are coming from here with this thought, here is a few theories, I wasn't there so I don't know, and I am not a politician so I won't lie to you about it. First, remember WW1? WW1 set up Europe and the Americas for WW2, what I mean is this, the restrictions on Germany that was placed on them after the war completely decimated their economy, destroyed their way of life, and removed any and all hope of them being restored to a formidable European power. All this was done after the agreed cease fire between the axis and allies, under the guise that the Axis would be treated fairly. Now mind you that WW1 was not started to gain power from one nation to another, it was a powder keg caused by the very alliances that were supposed to keep wars from happening in the first place (think of it this way, you and your neighbor agree to defend eachother should you be attacked, you also allow neighbors 4-10 into this pack, neighbor 2 has a disagreement with neighbor 11 and they get to fighting, but neighbor 11 is allied with 12-20, soon 1-10 is fighting to protect 2 from 11, and 12-20 respond in kind). So post WW1 after all the millions of people have died and a generations worth of young men are now feeding the daisies we have a just as polarized environment pre ww1, but thrown in with the complete inability for basic services such as food, water, shelter and jobs. It set up the environment for the Nazi nut jobs to come in and rally the people together under one banner with the promise they can make it better.I've never understood why and what the thinking was after we bombed Japan back into the stone age, why the hell did we rebuild the country for them?!!?!?!?!?!? YOu walk away and don't look back.
Doubtful, there is too much stigma about both of these manufacturers, not necessarily caused by their own marketing, but definitely not removed by it either. When I think Caddy I think either Rich old White Guy, or broke Black Guy. Seriously, see any middle aged middle class or young kids driving these cars? They are huge land yachts of vehicles that while comfortable, don't offer a whole lot to look at on the outside. They may be great cars, they just fit too well into the stereo type kind of vehicles. Same thing with Lincoln, they are nice cars, and I almost bought an MKZ AWD, but when I told anyone I was looking at a Lincoln they all asked if I was planning on retiring soon (I am 30 by the way). The MKZ is a fine driving machine, but its still too generic looking, and too closely resembles some Japanese imports.Maybe Cadillac and Lincoln will get to that level someday. (Caddy is alot closer - Lincoln needs to get their head out of their ass.)
Good post. I agree with almost everything. Wish I could write more now, don't have time.avmtdan wrote:I understand where you are coming from here with this thought, here is a few theories, I wasn't there so I don't know, and I am not a politician so I won't lie to you about it. First, remember WW1? WW1 set up Europe and the Americas for WW2, what I mean is this, the restrictions on Germany that was placed on them after the war completely decimated their economy, destroyed their way of life, and removed any and all hope of them being restored to a formidable European power. All this was done after the agreed cease fire between the axis and allies, under the guise that the Axis would be treated fairly. Now mind you that WW1 was not started to gain power from one nation to another, it was a powder keg caused by the very alliances that were supposed to keep wars from happening in the first place (think of it this way, you and your neighbor agree to defend eachother should you be attacked, you also allow neighbors 4-10 into this pack, neighbor 2 has a disagreement with neighbor 11 and they get to fighting, but neighbor 11 is allied with 12-20, soon 1-10 is fighting to protect 2 from 11, and 12-20 respond in kind). So post WW1 after all the millions of people have died and a generations worth of young men are now feeding the daisies we have a just as polarized environment pre ww1, but thrown in with the complete inability for basic services such as food, water, shelter and jobs. It set up the environment for the Nazi nut jobs to come in and rally the people together under one banner with the promise they can make it better.I've never understood why and what the thinking was after we bombed Japan back into the stone age, why the hell did we rebuild the country for them?!!?!?!?!?!? YOu walk away and don't look back.
-The reason we rebuilt Europe and Japan, the hope that by ensuring that these powers, even though they were defeated, could some how be self sustaining and exist on their own for their own purposes without looking at their neighbors as a source of food and power. How do you do this? Trade and production, if you have something to offer you have power, nothing to offer, your a beggar or thief.
The Japanese were operating on the notion that if they destroyed the American Pacific fleet that the US would stay OUT of the war and let them have a run at Asia, which they did anyway with quite some success. The mistake was making the attack a sneak attack and causing the uproar it did. If they had declared war a day earlier it would not have been as bad of a shock, and since we were, at the time Isolationists who were more than happy to watch the Germans blitzkrieg across Europe and only sending a few supplies to the Brits, what would be our reason for going to war now? The sneak attack was a bloodied nose on the Americans, something we could look at and see, and we responded in the way we should have two years prior by helping out the Europeans before pursuing Japan.
Your grandfather should never forget what has happened, neither should those that have never had it happen to them, what can be done is to fight back, win, and move on. We won, we wipe two cities off the face of the planet to ensure that THEY knew that WE won. The victor is not victorious until the defeated considers himself so. I completely agree with the thought that we HAD to drop these bombs as a symbol of our power and to break the will of the Japanese, the kamikazes and banzai charges were still going on because the Japanese believed they could win, even with no resources, no navy, no air force, and no other options left.
As for trade secrets, what trade secrets? Post WWII your small country is now completely protected by a much larger world power, who sells with you and is helping you rebuild. You no longer have a need for a military, you have plenty of production facilities, and plenty of post war raw materials at your disposal. Not having a military, nor having to pay for or feed one, you can now use that surplus or lack of expense and pour money into research and production. The Japanese were fanatical warriors, don't you think they would be decent researchers and developers? Once they grab onto an idea they go all out until it is right. The ideas that the Japanese developed post world war were not carbon copies of what the US showed them, they took our tools, made them better, marketed them to the world, and sold them for a profit, and god bless them for doing it.
Speaking of rebuilding, why did the US help rebuild Japan and Germany but not China who was victimized horribly by the Japanese? Communism, soviets took that role and showed them their own way of life, one that we did not want to have any part of. So now that Europe is in ruins, Japan is gone, the Russians have the largest most powerful force to be reckoned with, and it is starting to look like your former ally by necessity may be your next enemy, do you abandon your new conquests to let them rot or be taken over by the new threat at the gates, or do you rebuild and show these conquered peoples your own way of life in hopes that your way is better, stronger, faster, more efficient etc and hope that you can preserve that very way of life?
Doubtful, there is too much stigma about both of these manufacturers, not necessarily caused by their own marketing, but definitely not removed by it either. When I think Caddy I think either Rich old White Guy, or broke Black Guy. Seriously, see any middle aged middle class or young kids driving these cars? They are huge land yachts of vehicles that while comfortable, don't offer a whole lot to look at on the outside. They may be great cars, they just fit too well into the stereo type kind of vehicles. Same thing with Lincoln, they are nice cars, and I almost bought an MKZ AWD, but when I told anyone I was looking at a Lincoln they all asked if I was planning on retiring soon (I am 30 by the way). The MKZ is a fine driving machine, but its still too generic looking, and too closely resembles some Japanese imports.Maybe Cadillac and Lincoln will get to that level someday. (Caddy is alot closer - Lincoln needs to get their head out of their ass.)
As for Japan not allowing the US to build plants in Japan, first we wouldn't do it. It is too costly, Japan doesn't even build vehicles in Japan. The cost of transporting raw materials to and from the island nation are too great, that is why you see so many Japanese plants here, even though our labor rates are notoriously higher than most other countries. Second, look at unemployment rates, Japans lowest rate was is 1968 at 1% percent. Thats right, ONE PERCENT! The highest was of 09 at 5.6%, and currently is less than 5. Why would you allow a foreign company to purchase land that you already have very little of (Japan is about the size of California) and put up a factory that will provide no real benefit for your job market? 5% is roughly an average turnover rate in most full time workforces per year.
My .04