Hello all, my name is Tony, and I do not currently own a McLaren Capri or Mustang. I am, however, a die hard Fox guy and (very amateur) historian, and I recently began contributing Fox articles to a website called Wild About Cars.
Anyway, my question is sort of a two-parter, and it pertains to the B-303 cam issue (and I apologize if these questions have been answered previously). First, I'm confused as to the reference to the B-303, as that part number doesn't appear in the Motorsport catalog until '89, I believe. There are hot cams available in the earlier catalogs, but they use different part #'s. Is there another source besides the catalogs that shows B-303 availability much earlier?
The second part involves the assertion that some of these engines received the big cam on the assembly line. I find this particularly interesting because I have discovered two other cars that do not strictly conform to federal standards. While Ford as a corporate entity would never have risked the wrath of the Feds on these issues, I have come to suspect that there may have been a group within Ford that handled requests for "special" (read: illegal) cars on an under-the-counter basis, and that if that is accurate, then there must have a process for routing such orders. So, I'm interested to know if there has ever been a consensus reached on this issue, and if so, what that consensus was.
New guy intro and question
Hello!
Well, the B303 is kind of shrouded in mystery. I am fairly certain it was available before 1989 as (from what I have gathered) it was a cam that was friendly to carbureted cars which ended in 1985. I have been told the the later motorsport alphabet cams were tuned for the fuel injection cars for 1986 and later.
We have never 100% validated a B303 CAM installed in an asc. It is so hard to find an unmodified coupe to determine if it has one. My car seems to have a good lope to it and I know the cam is original...the engine was complete when I got it and only my dad rebuilt it and never removed the CAM. But I would have to have it removed and mic'ed to really know. I also have never had the original carb and all the vacuum lines hooked up correctly on my car....so maybe it just runs a little "rough"
.
Sandy always claimed that his 1986 coupe never ran correctly from the dealership. This car has about 600 miles on it to this day. It would always stall out when cold. This is possibly indicative of the mismatch of a B303 with the fuel injection of his 86.
The story goes that ONLY the coupes got the B303. The verts were for touring and the coupes were for racing. Early verts got automatic trannys, no ground effects and no engine modifications.
Coupes were for racing. They got the ground effects, manual trannys and the B303. It was expected that the owner would put on a different carb, better, exhaust, etc. There are even stories in the old Yahoo archive on this site of prototype rings/pistons/springs/etc found on an early coupe or two. Stuff of legends.
-Mike
Well, the B303 is kind of shrouded in mystery. I am fairly certain it was available before 1989 as (from what I have gathered) it was a cam that was friendly to carbureted cars which ended in 1985. I have been told the the later motorsport alphabet cams were tuned for the fuel injection cars for 1986 and later.
We have never 100% validated a B303 CAM installed in an asc. It is so hard to find an unmodified coupe to determine if it has one. My car seems to have a good lope to it and I know the cam is original...the engine was complete when I got it and only my dad rebuilt it and never removed the CAM. But I would have to have it removed and mic'ed to really know. I also have never had the original carb and all the vacuum lines hooked up correctly on my car....so maybe it just runs a little "rough"
.Sandy always claimed that his 1986 coupe never ran correctly from the dealership. This car has about 600 miles on it to this day. It would always stall out when cold. This is possibly indicative of the mismatch of a B303 with the fuel injection of his 86.
The story goes that ONLY the coupes got the B303. The verts were for touring and the coupes were for racing. Early verts got automatic trannys, no ground effects and no engine modifications.
Coupes were for racing. They got the ground effects, manual trannys and the B303. It was expected that the owner would put on a different carb, better, exhaust, etc. There are even stories in the old Yahoo archive on this site of prototype rings/pistons/springs/etc found on an early coupe or two. Stuff of legends.
-Mike
1985 ascMcLaren Coupe - Midnight Blue
Under Restoration
Under Restoration
http://www.ascmclaren.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=71
First post on Yahoo was : Wed Nov 8, 2000 6:44 am
-Mike
First post on Yahoo was : Wed Nov 8, 2000 6:44 am
-Mike
1985 ascMcLaren Coupe - Midnight Blue
Under Restoration
Under Restoration
This question has been around for a long time. This is the best I could dig up for you
http://www.ascmclaren.org/phpBB/viewtop ... sc&start=0
Look like several people found they had a stock cam. This is from 2009 when I said I would pull my cam and look. Well I never did... till today. I found that my car also had the stock cam in it. I measured the lift on both intake and exhaust to be 442. I wish I had found a b cam. Also on one end of the cam it reads C25 if that means anything.
http://www.ascmclaren.org/phpBB/viewtop ... sc&start=0
Look like several people found they had a stock cam. This is from 2009 when I said I would pull my cam and look. Well I never did... till today. I found that my car also had the stock cam in it. I measured the lift on both intake and exhaust to be 442. I wish I had found a b cam. Also on one end of the cam it reads C25 if that means anything.
~Peter
1985 ASC McLaren Coupe
1985 ASC McLaren Coupe
It's quite possible that it was only marketing material.
It's equally possible that asc threw a few of the cams into a handful of the very early cars.
It is unlikely that Ford would have done it since the legality is very sketchy.
Bottom line is that we will never know exactly what the whole hubbub was all about with the B303 and asc.
-Mike
It's equally possible that asc threw a few of the cams into a handful of the very early cars.
It is unlikely that Ford would have done it since the legality is very sketchy.
Bottom line is that we will never know exactly what the whole hubbub was all about with the B303 and asc.
-Mike
Last edited by negusm on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1985 ascMcLaren Coupe - Midnight Blue
Under Restoration
Under Restoration
Thanks for the responses, guys. I also spent some time going back through the forum and I feel like I have a better handle on it now.
Until recently, I was of the opinion that nothing odd ever happened on the assembly line back then. Why bother, particularly when, by 1986-87-88 there were an increasing number of high-perf oriented dealers who were more than willing to take on the risk of installing off-road only parts on new cars?
However, after seeing two non-conforming cars in person (and hearing rumors of others that have yet to be verified, including the ASCMcLaren Capris), I'm convinced that there were some shenanigans going on, almost certainly without the knowledge of upper management.
Over the past couple of years I've cultivated contacts with various ex-Ford employees who were involved in engineering and special projects back then. As time goes on, I intend to make a serious effort at getting to the bottom of this mystery.
Until recently, I was of the opinion that nothing odd ever happened on the assembly line back then. Why bother, particularly when, by 1986-87-88 there were an increasing number of high-perf oriented dealers who were more than willing to take on the risk of installing off-road only parts on new cars?
However, after seeing two non-conforming cars in person (and hearing rumors of others that have yet to be verified, including the ASCMcLaren Capris), I'm convinced that there were some shenanigans going on, almost certainly without the knowledge of upper management.
Over the past couple of years I've cultivated contacts with various ex-Ford employees who were involved in engineering and special projects back then. As time goes on, I intend to make a serious effort at getting to the bottom of this mystery.
Fox history geek and militant Fox-ist.
Just FYI, I went back and double-checked the Motorsports catalogs from 82-86, and the B-303 doesn't appear. The following are cam part #'s and specs listed for the 5.0.
#A311- 280*IN/290*EX. .448IN/.472EX. HYD.
#A312- 290*IN/300*EX. .472IN/.496EX. HYD.
#A313- 282*IN/292*EX. .512IN/.536EX. MECH.
These are non-roller.
Perhaps the 86 Capris were test mules in more than one sense. Perhaps they were used to simultaneously test some experimental roller grinds and to establish a protocol for handling "special" builds on the assembly line. Through the engineering department, for example.
Just thinking out loud.
#A311- 280*IN/290*EX. .448IN/.472EX. HYD.
#A312- 290*IN/300*EX. .472IN/.496EX. HYD.
#A313- 282*IN/292*EX. .512IN/.536EX. MECH.
These are non-roller.
Perhaps the 86 Capris were test mules in more than one sense. Perhaps they were used to simultaneously test some experimental roller grinds and to establish a protocol for handling "special" builds on the assembly line. Through the engineering department, for example.
Just thinking out loud.
Fox history geek and militant Fox-ist.